"Deadpan and Nervous at Once": An Interview with Eric G. Wilson

Eric G. Wilson's most recent book, a hybrid of memoir and literary biography, is How To Make a Soul: The Wisdom of John Keats.  He has also published three other works of creative nonfiction: Keep It Fake, Everyone Loves a Good Train Wreck, and Against Happiness. His essays have appeared in The Georgia Review, The Virginia Quarterly Review, The Oxford American, The New York Times, The LA Times, Paris Review Daily, The Chronicle Review, and Salon, and he has recently placed fiction in Cafe Irreal and Posit.  He teaches at Wake Forest University. Check out his website and Twitter.

His story, "Sworn," appeared in Issue Seventy-Seven of The Collagist.

Here, Eric Wilson talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about Poe, unreliable narrators, and moving from nonfiction to fiction.

What can you tell us about the origins of your story “Sworn”? What sparked the initial idea and caused you to start writing the first draft?

A confluence of two factors. First, in my nonfiction writing, I was exploring possibilities for expanding my essayistic persona, the “I” of the essay. I had been reading Geoff Dyer’s Zona, in which his speaker comes across as a character in a Bernhard novel as much as an actual historical being. This is also true of the speaker in Dyer’s Out of Sheer Rage. I thought, I’d like to experiment with that technique, imagine my “I” as a character in a fiction. I’d already done this to some extent in my last nonfiction book, Keep It Fake

While this idea was circulating in my head, I was preparing to teach Poe’s “William Wilson,” a story with an unreliable narrator who seems not to know he’s unreliable. In other words, he reveals information to readers that he doesn’t seem to know he’s revealing. This is true of many of Poe’s narrators, usually nameless obsessives.

Dyer and Poe merged in my head, and I thought—I’ll write a first person fiction in which an obsessive and possibly guilty character is describing an event to an interlocutor. The character, a nameless “I,” reveals more than he knows. Indeed, he reveals exactly what he’s trying to hide.

In your story, there is a first-person narrator and someone he is directly addressing whose voice we never hear. Because the unseen addressee has control over when the narrator speaks, it seems like he is talking to an authority figure, perhaps an officer of the law, but of this we can’t be certain. Why did you choose to tell the story in this unusual way? How did you decide what information the reader would and would not be privy to?

I imagined my narrator in some sort of interrogation chamber. He might be in a prison, he might be in an asylum. I imagined that his interrogator would not be present, but in some sort of observation booth, asking questions through a speaker. 

I got the idea for this technique from Brian Evenson’s story “The Third Factor,” in his collection Fugue State. In the story, the narrator monitors the behaviors of the man who commits suicide. My interrogator whose voice we never hear could be this man. 

I should add that Evenson is probably more of an inspiration for this story than Dyer or Poe. He read from Fugue State at my campus last spring. I thought, I’d like to try to develop a voice like Evenson does in some of his tales, deadpan and nervous at once, lucid on the surface, but obviously obfuscating, prone to pedantic qualification as a kind of defense mechanism. We see this voice especially in Evenson’s “Desire, with Digressions.”

The narrator speaks in a peculiar voice, often clarifying precisely what he means by simple words like “know” and using lengthy phrases like “the place of the room where I sleep.” What did you have in mind when you designed this character’s voice? What did you do to inhabit his unique linguistic style?

In creating a highly self-conscious kind of diction, I wanted to manipulate a tension in the narrator. He is extremely careful, aware of what he knows and what his interrogator might know, but also careless, unknowingly revealing darker truths about himself. The vague diction, such as “the place of the room where I sleep,” also is a defense mechanism, an example of the narrator being afraid to speak directly about the terrible thing he seems to have done. 

Your bio indicates you are primarily a writer of nonfiction. How does your process differ between the genres that you work in? What lessons have you learned from nonfiction that inform the way you write fiction, or vice versa?

While writing Keep It Fake, I discovered the joy of imagining my autobiographical “I” as a character in novel. Even though I was writing about things that “really” happened, I did so from a particular mood, the kind of mood a fictional character might have, and in a particular voice, one voice among many. The process was exhilarating, liberating. From that kind of writing, the move to writing first-person fiction was quite logical. 

Given the kind of nonfiction and fiction I’m currently writing—first-person and voice-driven—writing in both genres feels very similar. I will say that since I’ve turned to fiction seriously, which occurred about a year ago, my nonfiction has become more playful, more literary.

What writing projects are you working on now?

I am working on a collection of weird tales, in the tradition of Evenson and Ligotti (and Lovecraft and Borges), of which “Sworn” is a part. Other parts of the collection have recently been published in Café Irreal and Eclectica

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

Fugue State, obviously, by Evenson, and also his Immobility. A wonderfully strange, lyrical book by my colleague Joanna Ruocco, called Another Governess / The Least Blacksmith: A Diptych. Knausgaard’s My Struggle, vols 1 and 2. Ben Lerner’s Leaving the Atocha Station.  Dennis Lim’s David Lynch: The Man from Another Place.

"They Go For a Walk": An Interview with Matt Dojny

Matt Dojny’s debut novel, The Festival of Earthly Delights, was published by Dzanc Books in June 2012 and is now available in paperback. Dojny’s work has recently appeared in Electric LiteratureA Public SpaceThe CollagistBetter Magazine, and Vol. 1 Brooklyn. Visit him at mattdojny.com, or at hiphopisthefuture.com, where he (sometimes) posts a drawing a day.

His story, "Introduction of Tongue," appeared in Issue of Sixty-One The Collagist.

Here he speaks with interviewer Dana Diehl about demon-cats, spoilers, and Raymonds.

What first inspired you to write “Introduction of Tongue”?

Well, it was a while ago, I—it’s hard to say how a story, you know, gestates. […] I guess it was somewhat inspired by, do you know that scene in Anna Karenina ... there’s some guy, some kind of shy scholar type, and there’s this girl he likes. They go for a walk—I think they’re mushroom hunting, or truffles?—I read the book so long ago, this is literally the only part I remember of it. Apart from when she throws herself onto the train tracks—spoiler alert. Anyways, so, this shy guy goes for a walk with this girl, and they both clearly like each other, and it becomes obvious that he’s going to propose to her. And she’s into it. And it’s building up, building up, and then—he just can’t bring himself to say the words. The moment passes, and they both relax, and start speaking of normal boring things, knowing now it’s never going to happen, that was the one chance. I’m not describing it well, but it’s a great little scene, and always stuck with me. I think that moment of, um, inarticulateness, or muteness, was the germ of “Tongue.” I guess the story is about being afraid to speak, or ... not having anything to say.

I’m interested in the language of this story. It’s at times formal and old-fashioned; I think this is the first story I’ve read that uses the word “milquetoast” (a word that I love, by the way). How characteristic is this story of your writing style? 

Basically totally uncharacteristic. One of the things that I enjoy about writing short stories is that, for me, they’re a place to mess around, experiment, do weird stuff. My novel—The Festival of Earthly Delights, if I can plug myself—was much more traditional. Or, at least, its weirdness resided more in its content, not in its style or approach. With the stories I’ve been writing, each one is a, I guess an opportunity to flex a new muscle. With “Tongue,” I started writing it in a standard contemporary style, it was about a woman who had a crush on some mysterious quiet coworker—oh, actually, if I can go back to your first question, now I remember the other inspiration for this story. The real inspiration. One day I was sitting on a bench at a playground with my wife, and she was talking to me about something, I was kind of zoning out a bit. And when she was done speaking, she was waiting for me to respond, and I had this very distinct sensation of not only having nothing whatsoever to say, but of being actually physically unable to speak. And as she was looking at me, waiting for me to say something, I had a sort of vision: the clear sky filled with dark clouds, and there was this skinny black cat perched on my shoulder, a sort of demon-cat, and—as I’m saying this, I realize this sounds ridiculous. But the cat was holding my squirming tongue in its mouth. Like a little writhing fish. And I opened my mouth to speak, and there was just a dark gaping hole where my tongue should be. I mean, this was all in my imagination, just a quick split-second fantasy that my brain coughed up. So, in the original version of the story, it was about this woman who liked this cute quiet guy in her office, and they go on a date one afternoon, and the story ends with her trying to get him to talk and then the sky goes dark and the cat appears on his shoulder holding his tongue, et cetera. But the story wasn’t really working, the cat-got-your-tongue thing was too on-the-nose, and my contemporary-young-woman voice was lame, with, you know, a lot of up-speak and that kind of thing. […] I’m not sure what made me—I think, I was reading Portrait of a Lady, that was it—a book I never quite finished reading—and that seemed like it might be a fun kind of style to do the story in. I enjoy that kind of stuff, Henry James, Jane Austen. I think I have a strong affinity for primness, and, like... milquetoast-ness... it just feels natural to channel that voice. […] In terms of the language—I usually don’t use the Thesaurus, I know it’s frowned upon, but with this story I did cheat and use it to try to find fun old-timey ways of saying things. I kind of love my Thesaurus. It’s shameful, I know.

This story’s speaker gives us frequent warnings that her story ends badly (spoiler alert!). For example she says, “I wish I could say that what followed was merely a delirious nightmare: but, if that were truly the case, then it is a nightmare I have yet to awake from.” Why did these warnings, or foreshadowings, feel important for this story?

That’s a good question. And I’m afraid I might not have an answer. I don’t know if it was—I think, a few years ago, I read some scientific study ... I’m sorry, I have a terrible brain in terms of retaining information. The gist of it was, is that they did this study where they had people read a Chekhov story and then rate how much they liked it... and then they had a second group of people read the same story, but before the second group read the book, they were told how it ended. Now, the natural assumption was that the group that knew the ending would enjoy the story less, but it turned out that it actually heightened the reader’s enjoyment. I forget the scientific reasoning, but ... I just thought that was so interesting, because my instinct is to always withhold information from the reader, you know, keep them in the dark. It made me think that maybe it’s better to give them some spoilers, to whet their appetite. I don’t honestly remember if I was consciously trying to do that when writing this particular story—but, let’s just say that I was.

I read that in addition to being a writer, you are an illustrator. Can you speak to the relationship between writing and your other artistic ventures?

I’m not sure if there is a relationship, necessarily. I made art for many years, trying to show in galleries, all of that, but I got pretty sick of that whole hustle. My apartment was overcrowded with large, unsold paintings, and I got the idea to make a book about the time I spent living in Southeast Asia—in part, I think I liked the idea because a book can be hidden in your computer, so if it doesn’t work out, at least it’s not taking up a lot of physical space. I originally conceived of it as being sort of an art book, mostly images, with a little bit of text. In the end, it mutated into a more traditional novel that had a little bit of art in it. It was nice having the illustrations, because if I ever had trouble describing something, I could just draw it. For instance, I was trying to describe the convoluted layout of this apartment complex, and spent way too much time attempt to use words, and in the end I just drew a map of the place. So much easier. With the new book I’m writing, it doesn’t make conceptual sense to have any illustrations in it, and I miss having that crutch. Now I just have to describe everything, and description is probably my least favorite part of writing. Describing a place, a room, a building, it feels like pulling teeth. Pulling my own teeth.

Are there any writers (or illustrators), you’d recommend?

All the regular people, I suppose. I like Raymond Chandler ... Raymond Carver. The usual Raymonds. I feel like lately I haven’t been able to finish reading a book. The books I’m currently enjoying and not finishing are Blood Meridian, and also The Haunting of Hill House, by Shirley Jackson... and Can’t Stop Won’t Stop, which is a great history of hip-hop in America. I’m stuck in the middle of all three of those books. And I just started that novel by the mysterious Italian woman, the book with the really homely cover, I’m totally blanking on the name... My Little Friend? That’s not it, I know. [My Brilliant Friend, by Elena Ferrante. —Ed.] It seems very good—maybe that’s the one that I’ll read the whole thing of. In terms of illustrators, I’m a fan of... all right, this was not intentional, but it’s another Raymond, Raymond Pettibon. For a few years I had a tumblr called HIPHOP IS THE FUTURE where I posted a drawing a day. They were sort of poor man’s Pettibons. And, I know you didn’t ask, but I’d also like to shout out to a great, little-seen television show called Everybody Loves Raymond. It’s a hidden gem.

What projects can we anticipate from you in the future?

I have a lot of projects in the pipeline that I think will enjoy tremendous posthumous success. I’ve written a couple of screenplays that I was hoping to make some quick bucks on—Hollywood, if you’re reading this, please get in touch. I have a collection of short stories that is almost ready to be put out to pasture. No, that doesn’t sound good. Put out ... put out into the ecosystem. Into the ether. And, I have a second novel that I’m slowly but surely plugging away on, which is called [title redacted]. Or, maybe you shouldn’t print the title, I wouldn’t want someone to steal it—it’s a good title, right? The book is pretty good too, I think. I predict that the people are going to really like it. I should be finished with it sometime in the year 2525.

“Only the Hush Settling Over the Houses”: An Interview with Matt Morton

Matt Morton has poetry appearing in Crazyhorse, Gulf Coast, Harvard Review, Indiana Review, and elsewhere. A finalist for a Ruth Lilly Fellowship from the Poetry Foundation, he is also the recipient of the Sycamore Review Wabash Prize for Poetry, a work-study scholarship from the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference, and the John Hollander Scholarship from the Sewanee Writers’ Conference. He serves as associate editor for 32 Poems and is a Robert B. Toulouse Doctoral Fellow in English at the University of North Texas.

His poem, “What’s That You Said?,” appeared in Issue Fifty-Seven of The Collagist.

Here, he talks with interviewer Darby Price about collage and discourse, the value of quiet moments, and how the act of writing should be fun.

Can you tell me a little bit about the origins of your poem, “What’s That You Said?”

I wrote “What’s That You Said?” in early February 2013, and it’s one of the few poems that I can vividly remember writing. I was an MFA student at Johns Hopkins at the time, and I had just finished teaching for the day—I think my introductory creative writing class had been discussing the roles of myth and magical realism in Gabriel García Márquez’s story “The Handsomest Drowned Man in the World.” The class had gone well, my students had been particularly engaged and insightful, and as a result I left feeling energized. Walking across the quad, the two and a half lines which would eventually open “What’s That You Said?” popped into my head, as cliché as that sounds. I realized I wanted to write a kind of “image list” poem, based around the idea of miscommunication. As soon as I got home, I sat down on my couch with my laptop and quickly wrote the poem from start to finish. I had been in a writing rut that winter, and the hour or so I spent working on the poem was a reminder that the act of writing should be fun, something that brings you in-the-moment delight.

Sound is an important sense throughout the poem—from “The brook / babbles beside the trail,” to “the freeway all blare / and whoosh.” On the other hand, the poem ends with silence, “which signifies absolutely / nothing, and makes what little difference there is.” Can you talk about the structure of this poem, and why you ended where you did?

When I attempt to write poems like “What’s That You Said?,” I start by listing disparate images and statements that are organized under a general umbrella heading or thesis of sorts—in this case, the problem of communicating or connecting with other people in a world oversaturated with sounds and stimuli. With these poems, my hope is that my mind during the process of writing will eventually take the poem in a direction I wasn’t expecting, moving beyond a mere list or collage toward something of greater psychological or emotional importance. Whether or not this happens during a first draft usually determines whether the poem ends up being interesting to me, and whether or not I spend any more time working on it.

In the case of “What’s That You Said?,” I began by using sound devices, particularly assonance and internal rhyme, to generate one sentence after another. This is especially evident in moments like “It was snowing, and it was going” and “. . . gobbledygook. The brook . . .” About halfway through the poem, around “You were sure / you understood what all this was about,” the poem spring-boarded from the list of images and situations into what feels to me, at least, like a more logical, linear discourse. Writing the second half of the poem was one of those exciting experiences when, just as you’re finishing writing a sentence, the next sentence seems to materialize effortlessly. As far as ending the poem where I did, it was in a sense purely intuitive—something about the syntax and near-iambic pentameter just felt conclusive. But the content of that final sentence also seemed appropriate, with its affirmation of the value of quiet moments—quietness in the sense of both one’s physical environment and, more importantly, one’s psychological state. Those moments are essential if we are to experience the world clearly, and they are increasingly difficult to achieve.

It’s always interesting to look at poems you’ve written in the past and realize how your outlook has changed over time. Does quietness and a sense of calm make merely a “little difference”? Is the importance of mental clarity the only thing that affects the quality of one’s life? Right now, that level of bleakness seems slightly overstated to me, although I’m still happy with how the poem moves in terms of its rhetoric and syntax.

Interwoven throughout the poem are several moments of confusion, misunderstanding, or misinterpretation, from the title itself to the speaker’s statement that “the sky is blue, but I can never remember why, / just as the bull elk that defines the meadow / communicates something it can’t understand.” How do you see the speaker’s role in this poem, particularly as they relate to those moments?

It’s always interesting for me to think about the speaker’s role in a poem that moves via associative logic, a poem that isn’t confined to a single moment in time or a given physical space. In “What’s That You Said?,” the speaker doesn’t explicitly enter until the lines that you mention, which occur about two-thirds of the way through the poem. Still, whether or not there is an “I” in the text of a poem or not, it seems like there is always an implicit speaker (or speakers); when a poem that employs lots of leaps or elements of collage succeeds, it is because each of the images—no matter how unrelated they may seem on a logical level—intuitively seems to belong. I think that this sense of unity is a result of the composite or associative poem being the product of an individual consciousness, one that presents a specific series of thoughts that occurred to the writer on a particular occasion. Maybe that’s why revising composite poems is so difficult—you’re no longer in the same psychological place that you were while writing the original draft, so any new images, aphorisms, or declarations tend to feel grafted-on and overly self-conscious.

As for the speaker’s role when he explicitly enters “What’s That You Said?,” I was hoping to raise the stakes of the poem by making the speaker more vulnerable, by acknowledging, “Hey, this happens to me too.” Re-reading the poem now, it still strikes me as a moment when something genuine (if not especially profound) is revealed, and in the context of “What’s That You Said?” I think it makes sense for the speaker to lament the fact that, a lot of the time, he doesn’t really know what’s going on.

On a somewhat related note, over the past couple years I began to realize that self-deprecation was becoming a kind of twitch for me, like I felt as if I needed to apologize for assuming I was allowed to write anything in the first place. Tony Hoagland has written intelligently about this tendency; in one of the essays from Twenty Poems That Could Save America, while discussing what he calls “the hapless, distracted poems of the moment,” he argues that “Not being able to find the truth, or feeling capable of such a quest, not feeling qualified to possess or enunciate it, is another kind of neurotic tragedy.” Of course, as humans, sometimes we do feel confused, overwhelmed, or at the mercy of external forces, and there certainly is a place for expressing those thoughts and feelings in poetry. But I don’t think anyone is obligated to admit to a false sense of powerlessness—or to feel embarrassed for putting their thoughts on a piece of paper—as a prerequisite for writing and maybe publishing something that other people may or may not read.

What are you reading right now—and/or what have you just finished reading?

Generally speaking, 2015 for me was the Year of A. R. Ammons. I had never been exposed to any of his work in a classroom and rarely had heard anyone even mention him. Discovering his work through a friend—the collections Glare, Coast of Trees, and Garbage, in particular—has had an enormous impact on my own writing. Ammons’ voice somehow manages to combine a disarmingly conversational demotic register with high rhetoric and profound philosophical observations. He is humble but never servile. His poems are extremely “personal” (in the sense that they explicitly reveal a lot about Ammons’ psychology) while also being incredibly inviting to the reader.

More recently, I have been reading and re-reading Incarnadine by Mary Szybist, Reconnaissance by Carl Phillips, and Richie Hofmann’s wonderful debut collection, Second Empire. As far as non-poetry reading, last month I read George Eliot’s The Mill on the Floss and just last week hopped on the Karl Ove Knausgaard My Struggle bandwagon—I’m hooked on those books, although I’m still having trouble articulating to people why I find Knausgaard so captivating.

What writing projects are you currently working on?

I’m currently revising what I hope will be the final poems to be included in my first full-length manuscript, which I plan to begin submitting to contests and publishers next fall. I have been putting off this process as long as possible because it seems like every time I have enough poems to make up a manuscript, I make what feels like a new step forward in my writing and have to scrap five or six older poems that no longer seem good enough! As far as the manuscript’s organization, I’m still thinking about what order would best serve the poems and the manuscript as a whole, but my goal is ultimately to have a collection that is initiated by, but moves beyond, poems sparked by disillusionment—disillusionment with the nuclear family, with the limitations of romantic love, with one’s own mortality—and poses possible answers to the questions, “How should we live?” and “What does it mean to have a good life?”

"The Fool's Recipe to Perfection": An Interview Greg Gerke

Greg Gerke’s fiction and non-fiction has appeared or is forthcoming in Tin House, The Kenyon Review Online, Denver Quarterly, Quarterly West, LIT, Film Quarterly, and others.

His story, "Such a Sweet Meat," appeared in issue Sixty-Three of The Collagsit.

Here, he speaks with interviewer Gary Josh Garrison about NYC construction/deconstruction, babydom, and the pleasures of Henry James.

This is a highly digressive story (in the best way) that tangents through a life and (what feels like) a moment almost unnervingly. How did you first come to this piece?

Since I wrote the two and a half years ago, I'm not so sure exactly how I came to this story, though I am sure it was through a feeling, probably a disjunctive one. Something wasn't sitting right with me and I wrote to flush it out, as despair and worry can be bile to my mind. Since it was summer, the booming noises of New York were in full flare/flair. There must have been construction going on. It's gotten progressively worse with the city allowing developers to do just about anything in ridiculous pose of “helping the economy” and “creating jobs”—utter bullshit. The only aim is more wealth and using cheap labor and lax safety to satiate that awesome hunger. The construction noise led to a deconstruction of a character's life, so perhaps I should thank the construction crews who pay no heed to regulations about time, safety, and other circumstance—thank Christ I could forge something from their pollution.

At one point Freud and his theories are casually dismissed by Bella, but even before that moment it's hard not to think of him while reading this story. How much did Freud influence you during the writing of this piece?

To my discredit, I haven't read Freud seriously. I err on the side of Jung.

For such an intimate and intrusive story that delves into the psyche of George, I think one of the most exciting aspects is the way the narration is unafraid to venture into the perspective of Bella. How do you see these shifts working?

I feel the shifts as the most natural way the narrative could unfold, which is probably a foolish statement, since I'm the author. And for another monstrosity, but in all honesty, I'll add that I was just doing what the muse directed me to do. Suddenly, the psyche of George lost its avoirdupois, and the narrative needed another figure to play off of and imbue with metaphor. A screen character, as they say, to view the overall through. I don't know how other people write or read, but I think I respond to things that have little to do with the sense of the story and have more in common with voice and sound. A few days ago I gave a reading and I could only really listen to the sound of the voice of the other readers—that's all I wanted. I didn't want to follow the story, I just wanted to be read to—to have quiet in this day and age and to have the only sound being a voice. One could say I wanted to return to the pre-language days of babydom. All the other readers were women, and they all had a very specific way of vocalizing, of tossing the sound through the air. Maybe it's an attempt to erase the intellect from the experience. I don't want to judge what I hear, I only want to feel it's reverberations.

What are you reading at the moment?

At the moment, I'm reading a few things. I've tentatively started William James's The Varieties of Religious Experience, which I'm reading with a distant friend. I'm not sure how far I'll get. It's on one hand sprightly, but also highly digressive, which has to be some sort of plus. I thought it might be fun to read his brother Henry James at the same time, and so I've started The Spoils of Poynton. It might be another year of reading Henry James, so I plan to read novels and tales between 1897-1901, the period of his taking fiction beyond the heavy realist mode after his failure as a playwright, as well as when he started to dictate his novels to a secretary, which is claimed to have happened in the middle of “writing”What Maisie Knew. It seems so many of my generation and the few before me are not reading him, so I feel obliged to take upon the weight of reading him for them. But I don't experience James as a hair shirt—there's a singular pleasure in his prose, though it can be like playing Rafael Nadal on a clay court. But such an experience can only make you better. I don't mean a better person, but a better seer. It shows you the vastness of the world by examining the worlds in every person. Whether you are a writer or not—there's something James touches, the uncanny and something beyond infinite (like Kubrick's 2001, The Shining, and Eyes Wide Shut), that can expand one's inner vision.

What are you currently working on?

Currently, there is the obligatory novel, which can even be called the obligatory set-in-New-York (Manhattan/Brooklyn) novel. I read a segment at a launch for a book of stories that just came out, My Brooklyn Writer Friend (pieces of which were also in The Collagist), and the crowd seemed to like it, including a number of writers whose approbations are important to me. I don't know how it will end, but I had Henry James's “International novels”in mind, thinking one of the character's would go to Europe for the obligatory “finding of oneself.”Yet now, I'm beginning to think that parts of the United States have enough of their own myth and manners and so a character might just take a jaunt to California to throw a wrench into his or her life that New York can't provide.

“Every Line is Some Salvation”: An Interview with Henry W. Leung

Henry Wei Leung is a Kundiman Fellow and the author of Paradise Hunger (2012), which won the Swan Scythe Press Chapbook Contest. He earned his MFA in Fiction from the University of Michigan, and has been the recipient of Fulbright, Soros, and other fellowships. His poems, essays, and translations have appeared in such journals as Crab Orchard Review, Drunken Boat, The Offingand ZYZZYVA. He is currently working toward a PhD at the University of Hawaii at Manoa.

Leung’s poem, “Creed,” appeared in Issue Fifty-Seven of The Collagist.

Here, he speaks with interviewer Darby Price about snail mail, musical octaves, and how language is nothing and everything all at once.

As a reader, I’m drawn in by the emphasis on the speaker’s relationship to the written word, “this game // of symbols drawn from some desire’s shore,” and what I read as the conflation of that love with the speaker’s connection to others. Can you talk about the role of language throughout the poem—as concept, as bridge, as identity, and/or as a method of connecting and disconnecting?

Language is everything. I’m answering your questions out of order because this one will be the key to the rest (and suddenly I’m remembering a Cornelius Eady line: “that the key to any heaven is language”). I mean “everything” in a folded sense: language is actually nothing, it’s immaterial, it’s misprision, it’s decay, it’s the codification of a living thought into a textual object; it’s nothing because it’s not a thing—and yet it’s all we have. It’s the musical notation of our consciousness. So it becomes everything.

This poem is a long, final letter to all those I’ve exchanged snail mail with, and as much as I wanted it to be a poem about the promise of closeness and the intimacy of language, I think in the end that it’s really about the failure of closeness. To love is to reach for the Other, and there’s no meaningful way to do this except through language. Is it possible for the language of the Other to become so intimate that it lives in you, another’s voice running almost seamlessly through your voice? (A geek moment: I’m thinking of the ending to that beautiful but short-lived sci-fi show Dollhouse, in which someone is brought back to life by having his consciousness implanted into the body of the one he loves, alongside her consciousness. Is such a schizophrenia the real consummation of love?) But look at the poem. It’s part of my larger project of exploring the second-person address, to make the poem about “you” – both “you the reader” and something like a “lyric you” – and yet at the end it’s still all about “I.” You can achieve a seamlessness of voice, or something close, like a weave, but what you arrive at isn’t the Other; you only arrive back at yourself, at your own borders.

Throughout this poem, the speaker’s voice is interwoven with the voices of others, most of whom speak in direct quotes, sometimes parenthetically. What effect did you want to create with this back-and-forth structure?

Someone else asked me if I had “researched” the poem, i.e., did I dig up letters to find those lines and quotations? The poem was written feverishly, and all those quoted lines have been living in my consciousness for so long—whether as talismans against despair or as haunting shadows—that they were already at my fingertips as I wrote. That’s the point. That’s the closeness and the loneliness of writing letters, I think: you end up with these objects of paper which are always speaking at a volume corresponding to your own longing. But the speaking is an illusion; you’re actually hearing your own voice reading those words in your mind; you’re actually reading a page in silence.

When I read the poem, its movement is not on the formal level which switches between the speaker’s voice and the quoted voices; the effect is not mere clamor. The movement, rather, is in the wavering between affirmation and dissipation. You can’t affirm “I believe” without signaling uncertainty in the same instant. You can’t cite closeness without signaling loneliness. And I’m not describing opposites here; I’m describing edges. Think of the musical octave: if your tonic note is A, the farthest from it you can get is G#, which because of its distance is so tense and uncomfortable. But you just go one semitone further, and where do you end up? A on the next octave. (You can compare this to martial art degrees in the most traditional models: you start with a white belt and aspire to the black belt, but after that the subsequent stage of mastery is another white belt.) The poem is dealing with the Self-Other divide and the boundaries between people. But it’s not people standing on opposite ends of the room. They’re standing with their backs together: so close, and so far.

Can you tell me a little bit about the origins of your poem, “Creed”?

Meg Kearney’s poem of the same title (from An Unkindness of Ravens) was the first to truly move me. It was from that poem that I got my start as a poet. I still talk about it a lot, and I’ve written semi-critically about it, and I used to write a Creed every year, starting from 2003. Some of my friends, too. I have a collection on my computer of the ones they’ve sent me, these beautiful things that never get published (and are never sent out for publication as far as I know), these poem-shaped belief systems composed of the most profound and the most mundane words.

I stopped after this one because something had changed. I recognized that it had become a poem of its own, different and necessary in its own way, no longer hanging solely from the structure of Meg’s poem (but still very much in homage to it). It was also a kind of goodbye poem, a goodbye to all those years and all those letters, the desperate earnestness of it all. I don’t fully understand what happened yet. But I haven’t written letters since the poem, either.

What are you reading right now—and/or what have you just finished reading?

Carolyn Forche’s anthology, Against Forgetting. I’m teaching excerpts from it for the first two weeks of my Poetry & Activism class. Diary of Use by J. Vera Lee came across my desk recently, and the poems in it are just marvelous. And I’m always reading—always, constantly, perpetually, for my sanity—Simone Weil and Rumi.

What writing projects are you currently working on?

I just came back from a year in Hong Kong on a Fulbright. I was overly concerned with the Umbrella protests that broke out just after I arrived last fall, and I was finishing a manuscript of poems while out there on the streets. The manuscript ended up being a book about Hong Kong, which I’m shopping around now. I’m not convinced anyone cares. I’m actually trying to leave that fall behind me and stop writing about it, in spite of myself. I’m trying to find my way back into fiction, to finish a novel of the martial arts, which I’ve been sitting on for too long. And I keep thinking I might write some kind of neurotic Christopher Smart poem. When my partner and I leave for the day, our cat sits by the door to wait; but I’m convinced that space and time are the same thing for her. So what does this mean in the passage of daylight, and how does she decide when to stop waiting? Ha!

"Whale as Witness": An Interview with Gregory Lee Sullivan

Gregory Lee Sullivan's stories appear or are forthcoming in The Collagist, Permafrost, Barely South Review, Buffalo Almanack, The Nervous Breakdown, and other literary journals. Before turning to fiction, Greg worked as a newspaper reporter in Georgia and Tennessee. Read more of his work at his website or find him on Twitter at @SullivanGL.

His story, "The Allatoona Whale," appeared in Issue Sixty-Two of The Collagist.

Here, he speaks with interviewer Dana Diehl about lake culture, Balderdash, and animals in unexpected places.

Why write about the Allatoona Whale? What draws you to it as a subject?

I worked at a marina on Lake Allatoona during the latter part of my time in high school and when I’d come home from college the first couple summers while I was a college student at the University of Georgia. The lake culture always kind of fascinated me. This isn’t a period of my life that I think back to all the time, but it was that time between childhood and adulthood and independence, so every once in a while it comes to me (I’m 31 now, so not very old but just old enough, I believe, to feel genuine nostalgia about anything). A lot of people where I’m from spent a good amount of their time on the lake to the extent where it was central to a lot of peoples’ family traditions. We never had a boat growing up, but I was always drawn to the water, so I think working there helped my imagination. I got to drive the boats around all the time too, even if they were mostly shitty rental boats. It was quite a crowd down there. You’d have all the rednecks from where I’m from doing their thing, and then you mix that with all of the upper middle-class Cobb County people (Atlanta’s long-established northern suburbs) doing their thing with the nice boats that they owned, and then on weekends you’d get Atlanta people and international tourists coming up to rent from us. It was a shit show, but shit shows are good for writers.

As a side note, I’ve always wanted to write something about some of the almost-encounters I had there and turn them into real encounters, especially how it’d almost get weird all the time when European tourists would think the men’s restrooms were locker rooms and they’d be standing around in the restrooms completely naked and hairy when a local group would stumble in off a beat-up bass boat with a dip in their mouth, having never left the county before and with their five-year-old son in tow. The truth of the matter is, somehow I never saw a fight, or even a yelling match, break out over that kind of thing. Man, what a potential explosion, though! The lesson there is to never assume you’ve got the local people figured out.

But I should get to the whales. Whales live a really long time apparently. And there have been real shit shows for a really long time (sometimes funny shit shows, sometimes very sad and depressing ones), so I wanted to bring the whale in as sort of a witness to all of the shit shows of this place that I still find endlessly fascinating and that I’m usually very proud to call more-or-less my place of birth.

This piece takes the form of a scientific profile, which suggests (for me at least) that stories can be found in unexpected places. What do you think makes a story? At what point does a text become a story?

The piece plays with the reader’s assumptions of the scientific profile, so that’s a good point that you’re making. Like a traditional story, the storytelling is revealed a little at a time within the form it’s delivered. The revelation of the story within the less-traditional form made this a fun one to write for me. Have you ever played the Balderdash board game? I think all writers have probably played that game. Writing the first draft of “Allatoona Whale” was like playing that board game except I was by myself when I wrote the story.

That last part of what you’ve said is a great question, and it’s not an easy one to answer. Most of my stories probably have what people would say is some degree of weirdness to them, but most of them don’t tend to employ non-traditional forms like “Allatoona Whale.” The decision to use the form was an unconscious one. Looking back, I think doing so allowed me a window to gaze at what I know very, very intimately and play with the idea that I might could still be objective with the source material.

As far as what I think makes a story, I think it’s healthy for writers and readers to debate the issue from time to time. I don’t feel entirely comfortable declaring what a story is. I prefer to weasel out of doing so by quoting Supreme Court Justice Stewart from the sixties, who was the guy whose famous legal threshold for obscenity was that we know it when we see it. But since this is a story about lakes, I’ll instead sidestep by referring readers to the form of abductive reasoning most of us know as the Duck test: “If it looks like a duck,” etc.

This story alternates between the believable and the fantastical, between literal language and metaphor. I love the surprise in this detail:

“Some Allatoonas have what are essentially pink tattoos carved into their skin, indicating the many different cultural eras an adult whale has lived through. Scientists use these tattoos as dendrologists do tree rings, to determine the age of the Allatoona […]When left unaltered by man, an Allatoona's skin is as smooth as a slippery snake boot.”

Can you speak to the experience of switching between two forms in one piece?

I love you right now for quoting my story.

I like Karen Russell, and she does this switching I think you’re talking about pretty well. Karen was a guest instructor when I was doing my MFA at Rutgers-Camden. How she pulls off what she does, I think, is she excels at establishing a ratio between the real and the strange. When the ratio is established, the idea most of the time is to keep the ratio consistent through the piece.

A lot of my stories are centered on either metaphor or “story,” but I think you’re right that this one does concern both.

By the way, in retrospect, I really like the phrase that you quoted has “snake boot.” It makes me think of two possibilities looking back. First, a boot made of snakeskin, which are fashionable in some places I guess, or, even better, it makes me nostalgic (yet again) for those rubber wading boots that allow the rural child to walk through creeks and streams without worry of being bit by those poisonous water moccasins that are so dangerous to us. As a child growing up in nowhere Georgia, once I finally got hold of some of those rubber boots, I felt invincible. The devil couldn’t harm me anymore. I would go all over the place, capturing small aquatic animals and placing them in jars.

What other animals (real or fantastical) should we absolutely know about?

I think the word has been getting out for some time, but there are some pretty crazy wild hogs in North Georgia. I have written about them a little in my story collection. I guess we’d be talking about them as metaphor again there, too. I also have a story about wooly mammoths on the Tennessee-Arkansas border, but I don’t want to give away to people who haven’t seen the story yet, whether they’re real or not or too many details about them, if so. And while I do write about animals a good bit, my favorite animals to write about are people. In real life, I also find myself really drawn to pit bulls.

I should share that once I worked for a small newspaper in Georgia somewhere, and I did this one story about this family that kept seeing this panther in the woods by their home. This was in Central Georgia, so nowhere near the Florida panther of South Florida. This is something that really happened. I would link to it if the paper’s online archive was functioning. The family was happy to be interviewed about it, whether they were just looking for attention, genuinely wanting to get the word out, or playing an elaborate prank. The local agriculture extension agent from the university was not happy about me writing the story because he saw it as me using my official capacity as a newspaper reporter to lend credibility to what he thought, with his expertise, was a bunch of bullshit (my words, not his), and potentially creating a mass hysteria. That extension agent, God help him, had no idea what it was like to write for twelve months out of the year for a small newspaper. Everything I wrote about was, in a sense, writing about something where we would be lending the subject or issue more weight than it was worth, especially looking back. You could argue that, anyway. But I guess all of these things depend on perspective.

Are you working on any projects right now? If so, please tell us about them!

Well, I’ve finished this collection of stories, of which “Allatoona Whale” is a key one. I should say thanks again, by the way, to your brilliant fiction editor Gabriel Blackwell for his work with the story. About half of the stories from the collection have been published individually or are forthcoming now, so I’m beginning the process of sending out the collection in its entirety to agents and publishers and still trying to place the last few newer stories. Like everyone, I also have a novel that I’m working on. It’s set in Alabama, and its main character is a king who is opinionated but most of the time finds he is powerless. It is in no way whatsoever informed by reality, or I guess you could say it is completely. 

"It’s Always Surprising How Much Isn’t Necessary": An Interview with Kelly Miller

Kelly Miller enjoys life in the most eclectic town in Iowa. A small town filled with people from all cultures and walks of life. Writers, artists and musicians can be found everywhere. She writes flash fiction and nonfiction. And works part time with the elderly and autistic children.

Her essay, "Exploiting the Connection," appeared in Issue Seventy-Seven of The Collagist.

Here, Kelly Miller talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about brevity, Doritos, and her New Year's resolution.

What can you tell us about the origins of your essay, “Exploiting the Connection”? What sparked the initial idea and led you to write the first draft? 

The tree actually fell shortly after my mother’s funeral. So there I was on my back on top of a picnic table at a park in the middle of winter and a mixture of feelings and scenes and a knowingness started free-falling through my mind and body. I dug a pad and pen from my backpack and started trying to record it all.

The entire essay is less than 200 words, yet it contains a wide breadth of emotions and circumstances. How did you achieve such an economy of language? Did it require a lot of revision or restraint to be so concise?

The original essay after first edit was about a thousand words. Cutting down is always my favorite part. Also painful when you have to discard your darlings. But with each edit I grit my teeth and ask, Is this line, image, word, really necessary? It’s always surprising how much isn’t necessary. Only when the piece is down to the barest of bones that still pack a punch do I call it finished.

I must ask about your piece’s title, “Exploiting the Connection.” It seems like quite a “meta” title to me, framing the essay in such a light that it’s not so much about the events observed, or even how you observe the events, but about how you use those events to your advantage as a writer and/or as a person grieving a loved one. What does the title mean to you? Did you mean to imply that you’re exploiting a connection as the author of this essay, or during a moment you lived that’s described in this essay (e.g., when you saw the tree fall)? (Both? Neither?)

I almost hate to comment on my idea of what the title means. It’s often people’s favorite part and they all have different theories. I will say you are right about me using observed events let’s say as fodder for my writing. I once wrote an essay about cleaning my mother’s dentures just before she died and how I was thinking about writing the essay even as I was standing in the hospital bathroom rinsing her teeth. Not really proud of it, but for me it’s how life works. Teeth and death and love and Doritos all up against each other. And of course trees falling in the woods. Seen or unseen.

Your bio says that you work “with the elderly, and children with autism.” How has this type of work affected your life as a writer? Do you write about these subjects? Has the work taught you any lessons (about empathy, or patience, or anything) that have influenced the way you write about people?

Working with the elderly and autistic kids has taught me so much. But mostly about silence. Not the kind of silence that is easy to find when you are lone. But the kind that’s hard to honor when you want so badly to do or say something to make everything okay. I have learned to sit. Take a hand. Look into eyes. Breathe.

What writing projects are you working on now?

I’ve been trying to write about and honor a relationship that was hugely transformative in my life. I’ve tried memoir. I’ve tried fiction. My New Year’s resolution is to just get it written from my point of view as if no one else will ever read it. I’m hoping this will shut down the critics in my head.

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

Patti Smith’s “M Train.” Even if you aren’t a fan, pick up a copy. The language, subtle but powerful emotion, and sense of place are all delicious.

"It Should Stab Rather than Meditate": An Interview with Colette Arrand

Colette Arrand currently lives in Athens, Georgia, where she is a student at the University of Georgia. Her work has appeared in The Toast, The Establishment, The Atlas Review, Powder Keg, and elsewhere. She can be found online at her website, or on the blog Fear of a Ghost Planet.

Her essays, "011. Metapod" and "129. Magikarp," appeared in Issue Seventy-Six of The Collagist.

Here, Colette Arrand talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about brevity, transformation, and writing about video games.

When you begin to write one of your Pokémon essays, do you begin with a specific creature and its Pokédex entry in mind? Or do you write a draft free of that influence and then choose a Pokémon that befits it later? (Or does it vary from case to case?) What else can you tell us about the origins of these particular essays, “Metapod” and “Magikarp”?

It always starts with the Pokédex entry. I know my goal here, which is 151 Pokémon, so it’s not a matter of “Do I feel like writing about Merrill or Trubbish today?” because I’m not familiar with those Pokémon—they’re not mine. When I started writing these (and you can read the first two that I wrote at Cartridge Lit), it was after months of just talking to people about how weird Pokémon is as a world, if you think about it, and the Pokédex entries kind of confirmed it. I’ve been writing in response to them for this project. They trigger memory or emotion or both, and then I try to work through those and see where they end up.

While the balance is shifting now, I wrote a lot of the Pokémon essays that are out in journals before I came out as transgender, including Magikarp and Metapod. One of the mechanics of Pokémon being evolution—forced changes enacted upon monstrous bodies—the metaphor for the way my body had changed in childhood and would soon and is currently changing in adulthood seemed obvious, but shrouded enough that I could get away with something while debating how public I wanted to be about my gender, if I wanted to be public about it at all. That’s probably more obvious in Metapod—I think if you’ve encountered a transition narrative (which these essays are and aren’t), then you’ve probably encountered the idea of a butterfly emerging from chrysalis. Metapod’s an odd Pokémon in the game, one you have to really work with to get it to evolve to Butterfree, as it doesn’t know any attacks and can really only harden its shell to protect itself from other monsters. So that’s what I’m working with, this sense of biding time, simultaneously hardening oneself against attacks while remaining a tender, vulnerable organism. Magikarp works in a similar fashion, as it is an incredibly weak Pokémon whose only attack is the useless “flail,” but if you throw him into battle enough times he evolves into a dragon. Initially I had those two essays linked, but Gyrados wasn’t really working for me—it’s a theme I’d explored elsewhere, better. Magikarp I liked the central image of, this interaction with my dad, who is a man that I love but whom I don’t have a long record of communication with. It doesn’t take much to trigger that memory, either. Food that I ate in large quantity when I was younger. A restaurant that I walk past every day on my way to work and school. Ed Pavlić, who is an agonizingly great professor and poet at the University of Georgia, once told me that it was good that I couldn’t afford to travel much beyond Athens because it would make me more present in my environment. Magikarp (and other essays like it) is that theory in practice.

“Magikarp” consists of fewer than 500 words, “Metapod” only 200. Why do you write such concise essays? Does it require a lot of revision and/or restraint in order to achieve this economy of language?

Part of why these essays are so short is because I plan on there being 151 of them, but most are so emotionally taxing that I mentally can’t go farther than what’s on the page. I write longer essays elsewhere, but I think because I learned how to write online, where brevity is aspired to, I learned how to write a lot and then cut back some. In the case of Metapod and Magikarp, there was a lot of revision. I think the first draft of Metapod, which I wrote while proctoring student evaluations in a campus computer lab, was something like 1,200 words. But I start a new document and overwrite the old one every time I revisit an essay so I can’t really say what was or wasn’t lost except that there was a much more raw version of that essay which was explicitly about my body in a way that I don’t feel was honest. Or sometimes I’ll write an entire essay, let it sit there for a few days, and decide that it doesn’t work at all and start over again. I wrote one for Metapod’s sister cocoon Pokémon Kakuna that was also about metamorphosis, but more so about how I obsessed over transformation sequences in comic books and movies. It’s a good idea, one that deserves an essay, but the emotion of it is off. There’s a monster that’s a hard, angry looking shell with a poison stinger on it. It should stab rather than meditate, and in truth it did neither. So yeah, it’s a matter of form because they have to be short to fit together in a book and revision because I want the rhetorical point I’m driving at to be as sharp as possible, even when I’m working through some rather messy emotions.

In “Magikarp,” you tell a student that “a more impressive trick than telling me a fast-food sandwich is delicious would be to explore the reasons why.” Do you apply this type of advice to your own writing—trying to pull off the most impressive trick? How does this way of thinking manifest itself in your essays?

I wonder about that myself, because I’ve recently started freelancing and I can’t tell sometimes if the sentences I’m writing on assignment are clearly evoking an idea or if I’m noodling around with words just to show that I can. It’s a fine line, I think. That student came to me with an essay that said that we all knew why those chicken sandwiches were delicious, and as a vegetarian who grew up in Michigan all I really know about them was that Chick-fil-A had a rather miserable record of working against the civil interests of queer people, at least as far as the then-big issue of marriage was concerned. So I said it wasn’t convincing, just saying that some sandwich from some place was good. Like, when you’re telling a friend to eat somewhere you don’t just go “Oh yeah, that place is good.” You know all the reasons why. With these essays I’m trying to deal more with the why of the emotion or memory or action or conversation than the what. In truth, a lot of conversations I’ve had about my body are boring. I’m a life-long student, so most of the things I’ve done are boring, too. But there are layers and layers of thought and action that make up those things, and the trick, I think, is to access them. In the Pokémon essays initially, the trick was to unlock them and hide them simultaneously, though I don’t think that’s what I’m doing anymore. In other essays, particularly ones I’ve written about the experience of being transgender, about the early stages of transitioning, and so on, the trick is to write about it in a way where I’m not exploiting myself or other trans people while also casting it for a much larger audience. I think the difference is that I thought of these essays as very private ones, and I write for myself differently than I write for others. I’m not playing any tricks, I don’t think, but I’m using different techniques to please different masters.

In the past few years, we’ve seen writing (both literature and criticism) based on video games grow in abundance and popularity (I’ve even been guilty of such writing myself). While it’s only a small niche in the larger literary landscape, of course, video-game writing has become more visible, at least, thanks to publishers like Boss Fight Books and Cartridge Lit. What’s the appeal for you of works with video games at their center (or periphery)? Why do you think more and more people are writing and reading about video games?

Ha, the idea of being “guilty” of that kind of writing is an interesting one to me because if there’s any guilt to be had over writing about pop culture, I don’t feel it. Video games and other “low culture” items (low culture in quotes because I don’t believe in the distinction) are supposed to be taboo in literary circles, I guess, because they’re a vehicle for pure pleasure, but for me, growing up they were the only cultural objects. Television, pop music, video games, comic books, professional wrestling. That’s what I had. I read voraciously, of course, but science fiction and Star Wars novels are probably held in similar standing. If writers are coming out and writing very poignantly about video games now (and the examples you’re pointing to are proof enough that they are) then its because a lot of us have similar cultural experiences and know better than to tag things as “low” or “high” and are willing to fight for these objects as art. I know poets who stopped writing poetry and took up game design, and I know novelists and essayists who’ve taken assignments writing novelizations of the games they loved as children (Matt Bell’s Dungeons and Dragons novel, for instance) or games developed by people who realize how intertwined gaming and writing are. For me, games have always been a means of exploring identity in a safe space—playing Pokémon on a Game Boy, the only person who knew I had the Pikachu edition (you know, for girls) or that I had given my boy character a girl’s name was me. A book can deal with identity, too, of course, but unless you’re reading a gamebook, even a video game adaptation’s sense of identity is closed off and limited. The first question Pokémon asks you is your name. That’s an enormous power to give to somebody. I think in video game literature you see an appreciation for that power, as well as encouragement to explore a world, make mistakes, and figure out what it means to be a person navigating through a complex societal system whose rules and functions were dictated by people you’ve never met. That it’s possible (even encouraged) to break that system is tremendously empowering.

What other writing projects are you working on now?

Beyond this, I’m working on a few things. At Entropy I’m writing a series of essays about famous and infamous wrestling matches (SHOOT FIGHT), and at Queen Mob’s Teahouse I am writing about music videos (ADD/MTV). I’ve been writing movie reviews online for seven years through my blog, Fear of a Ghost Planet and recently started self-publishing zines. I’ve done one about the poetry of pro wrestling interviews, am working on the second issue of that, and am also working on zines or ongoing projects about queer movie villains and Star Wars fan fiction focusing on the mundane daily lives of ridiculous spacefaring superheroes. In my spare time, I’m learning how to write comic book scripts and have thought about game design as a means of storytelling, but I also need to finish my degree, so those things are likely on the backburner until I free up some time, somewhere.

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

The Passion of New Eve by Angela Carter, Motherlover by Ginger Ko, The Bruise by Magdalena Zurawski, Binary Star by Sarah Gerard, Nevada by Imogen Binne, and A Safe Girl to Love by Casey Plett, as far as what I’ve read in the past three months. And zines. God. If you have a niche interest (and you do), there is a zine out there for you. The ones I’ve loved most recently are Shotgun Seamstress, The Atomic Elbow, Pro Wrestling Feelings, and Merrit Kopas’ These Were Free on My Blog.

“From the Frying Pan Into the Fire!”: An Interview with Dave Housley

Dave Housley's third collection of short fiction, If I Knew the Way, I Would Take You Home, was published by Dzanc Books in January 2015. He is the author of Commercial Fiction (Outpost 19) and Ryan Seacrest is Famous (Impetus Press; Dzanc Books rEprint). He is one of the founding editors of Barrelhouse magazine, and a co-founder of the Conversations and Connections writer’s conference. This story is part of what might be a new collection, Massive Cleansing Fire, in which every story ends in a massive cleansing fire. Seriously. Maybe. Sometimes he drinks boxed wine and tweets about the things on his television at @housleydave.

His story, "Those People," appeared in Issue Sixty-One of The Collagist.

Here, he speaks with interview Dana Diehl about Paula Deen, celebrities with a sense of humor, and allowing our characters to be evil.

Sara Lane is clearly influenced by Paula Deen and her racist comments back in 2013. What first inspired you to write about this?

Obviously you’re right about Paula Deen. Most of the time, for me, stories start as an idea of a person in a situation. Right around the time the whole Paula Deen thing was blowing up, I read an article written by somebody who had taken the Paula Deen Cruise (which it should be noted is a Real Thing), and I thought, I wonder what it would be like to be an African American person on that cruise. Then, what if that person won the cruise, so they weren’t even there on purpose, really. So that is the person in the situation. I thought it had some tension and the Paula Deen character, Sara Lane, was really fun to write– she’s this totally ridiculous character with a spray-on tan and silly hair and she spouts all this country down home nonsense, but she’s also smarter than all that in a really malevolent way.

There is an interesting trend right now of writers pulling celebrities into their stories. Can you tell us why you chose to transform Paula Deen into “Sara Lane”?

I don’t know why I chose to change the name, actually. I feel kind of like a wimp, now that you ask. I mean, my first book was called “Ryan Seacrest is Famous,” so I should be up for just writing a Paula Deen story. I guess probably I changed the name because Paula Deen seems litigious, and also seems like somebody who doesn’t have much of a sense of humor about herself (side note: best thing anybody ever told me about Ryan Seacrest -- “Ryan doesn’t find anything about Ryan to be remotely funny.”). I just read through the story again and it’s pretty squarely Paula Deen. I think the only thing I made up is the University of Tennessee thing, and the brother’s name, Olean, which I’m really proud of because it does sound kind of like a down-home country style name, and it’s also another name for Olestra, a fat substitute from the 90s that was known to cause explosive diarrhea and anal leakage.

I love how fully evil you allow Sara Lane to become at the end of this story. I feel that most stories choose to end in a place of mutual compassion and empathy between characters, and I found it extremely satisfying to read a story that avoided that trope. It was gratifying to learn that a person we hate was deserving of that hate. Please speak to this ending.

Thanks for that question! I really appreciate it. As I said above, I was thinking of her as this character who is really acting, and she’s got this ridiculous costume she wears around, with the hair and the spray-on tan and the accent and the southern manners, but underneath all that she’s this awful CEO villain who is just using the protagonist to try to wiggle out of the situation she’s gotten herself into. I wanted her to kind of reveal herself to him in that way, one scene at a time, so these pieces of the costume, or of her act, are falling away and in the end she’s just basically telling him how it is: she’s the one-percenter and he’s nobody and she’s going to show him, even if she has to sink the ship to do it.

I should also say I’m not that conscious of a writer, so when I was writing I was really just trying to push the protagonist further and further, and she was the obvious way to do that. I did always think of her as putting on this act, but I was not as conscious of that act falling away as I was writing.

If this story were to happen in the real world, what would the trending headline be the morning after the incident?

“From the Frying Pan Into the Fire!” 

Who is inspiring you right now (it could be a writer, musician, director, artist, or celebrity chef)?

I was interested in the Ryan Adams project where he did a song-by-song cover of Taylor Swift’s 1989 album. As somebody who has written a whole book of stories based on television commercials, I’m interested in offbeat projects, and I like Ryan Adams’ music, or a good percentage of it, at least. I know he was accused of “mansplaining” the album but I really don’t think that was it, or at least I read some interviews that seemed very honest and explained his motivation in ways that sounded legit to me – he had just finished up a tour and an album and was looking for a project to work on, and he says they actually write similar songs in a way that I’m not musical enough to understand. I thought that was a cool, interesting project, and as somebody who has worked on some really offbeat projects, there’s something there that I recognize and like.

What projects are you working on these days?

Speaking of offbeat projects, I’m actually finishing up a new story collection right now and I’m hoping to start shopping it around in the new year. It’s a group of stories that all end in the same way. It’s called Massive Cleansing Fire and every story ends in a fire. It includes “Those People.” Right now I’m in the place where I’m trying to play around a little with the idea of story endings and especially ending a story in this kind of “meaningful seeming” way, with a big fire. It’s pretty fun and I have no idea if it’s a really stupid idea or not, which seems to be where I wind up with a lot of the things I do.

"Temporal Dislocation in a Changing World": An Interview with Edward Gauvin

 Anne Richter (1939 - ) is a prominent Belgian author, editor, and scholar of the fantastic. Her first collection, Le fourmi a fait le coup, was written at the age of fifteen and translated as The Blue Dog (Houghton Mifflin, 1956) by Alice B. Toklas, who praised her in the preface. She is known for her twice-reprinted international anthology of female fantastical writers, whose introductory essay she expanded into a study of the genre. She has also edited official anthologies of the fantastical work of Meyrink and de Maupassant. Her four collections have won her such Belgian honors as the Prix Franz De Wever, the Prix Félix Denayer, the Prix du Parlement, and the Prix Robert Duterme. She is a member of the French Ordre des Arts et des Lettres, the Association of Belgian Writers, and PEN.

Edward Gauvin has received fellowships and residencies from PEN America, the NEA, the Fulbright program, the Lannan Foundation, and the French Embassy. His work has won the John Dryden Translation prize and the Science Fiction & Fantasy Translation Award, and been nominated for the French-American Foundation and Oxford Weidenfeld Translation Prizes. Other publications have appeared in The New York Times, Tin House , Harper's, and World Literature Today. The translator of more than 200 graphic novels, he is a contributing editor for comics at Words Without Borders.

Edward Gauvin's translations of her work have appeared in The Collagist and Sisters of the Revolution, an anthology of feminist speculative fiction from PM Press.

Anne Richter's story, "The Great Pity of the Zintram Family," translated by Edward Gauvin, appeared in Issue Sixty of The Collagist.

Here, Edward Gauvin speaks with interviewer Dana Diehl about how translators are like cover bands, Poe’s “unity of effect,” and translation as a chance for reciprocal influence.

What first drew you to this story by Anne Richter?

Honestly, it was the completely loopy prayer to Fire the father offers up at dinner that sold me. I’m drawn to stories that raise conflicts and questions, then defer them in favor of forward movement. Stories that entice, even mislead, with promise; stories almost (meta)morphic, constantly on the verge of becoming a different kind of story, about something else. By the end some kind of closure is made available—sometimes poetic, often oblique—but the drama is not addressed in the lock-step storytelling fashion often preached (“character wants something,” “obstacle to wanting,” etc.).

“The Great Pity of the Zintram Family,” both tonally and content-wise, reminded me of Edgar Allen Poe’s “House of Usher.” Were there any writers/translators that you were influenced by when working on this piece?

That’s a great comparison for many reasons, both within and outside the text: the water imagery, the incest theme, a verse interlude, the pervasive sense of doom. Poe’s a definite touchstone for Francophone fantastical writers, due entirely to Baudelaire’s famous and transformative translations, and Richter, herself a scholar and editor of fantastical work, is an acutely self-conscious of these traditions. “Zintram” certainly also aspires to Poe’s “unity of effect.” I suppose to me a mark of the story’s modernity relative to Poe is its compression, which is a way to combat reader familiarity. Major events happen in a very short span of narrative time.

When I was working on Zintram, I’d spent several years steeped in 20th century French and Belgian fantastical fiction—reading, translating, researching, writing critical sketches for Weird Fiction Review—so I was very aware of the Francophone side. While there aren’t specific writers or translators I’d single out, I was also generally conscious of addressing a tradition—or two, really, wanting to put Francophone work in the corresponding Anglophone context to spark a conversation. Every translation is a chance for exchange, for reciprocal influence, and certain traditions are more closely twinned than others, have a close and almost… incestuous? history.

What was the most challenging aspect of translating this work of fiction from French to English?

Richter has a very nimble voice—for all its watery imagery, her story never bogs down—so fleetness and fluidity were my priorities. I was careful with alliteration. A translation is a record of the translator’s comprehension (that is, explaining a text to him/herself—the first draft especially); the fantastic must never be leaden or overexplain.

Do you feel that English changes the tone of this story in any ways? If so, how?

I think the very name “Zintram” strikes a more eccentric note to French ears than to ours. It’s exotic, claptrap, nonsensical—the singsong “Lady Zintram-Zintram” mention is meant to highlight that—and this additional strangeness can get lost, for English readers, dismissed simply as foreign as anything else. In an earlier draft I actually tried switching names for the brother and sister—they became Roberta and Gilbert, old-fashioned names both—because I wanted emphasize the noble family’s almost temporal dislocation in a changing world. In French, it’s Robert and Gilberte, the latter of which led to Gilbertine.

There’s this idea, along with the translator’s invisibility, of a translation’s transparency: a pane through something once obscure magically becomes legible. I guess I think of a translation as a cover: you didn’t write it. Your band is probably different, your style is different. But you can still pay it tribute, and if you do it right and you’re lucky, own a piece of it forever. In fact, with every tiny choice you make, you’re helpless but to leave your mark on it.

What are you working on now?

Comics are my bread-and-butter, always coming and going across my desk. Two of the largest French comics publishers, Delcourt-Soleil and Dargaud-Dupuis, have recently taken the new media initiative of trying to reach American readers directly with digital offerings, the first with a selection of titles on Comixology, and the second with their own beautiful site, Europe Comics. These should really open the eyes of American readers to the glorious diversity of art style and subject matter in one of the richest comics traditions the world has to offer.

New York Review of Books also enters the graphic novel game next spring with the brand-new imprint New York Review Comics. I’m proud to have translated one of the launch titles, Blutch’s eerie and majestic toga epic Peplum, a contemporary remix of Petronius’ classic Satyricon.

Meanwhile, I’ve got four full-length prose translations coming out from now to next fall. The first, Eyes Full of Empty, is a contemporary Parisian noir featuring a Kabyle fixer, an antihero who offers a new point of view on race and class in a gripping yarn that upends a few of the usual satisfactions. Jérémie Guez, a rising star of French crime, was flown over by the Embassy and we have a few tour dates in California this week, northern and southern, courtesy of our publisher, the LA-based Unnamed Press.

The second is Serge Brussolo’s The Deep Sea Diver’s Syndrome, a book I pitched to Melville House as “Inception directed by David Cronenberg,” though traces of Philip K. Dick and J.G. Ballard can also be detected. Due out mid-January, with the first chapter online and an overview here.

Belgian fabulist Paul Willem’s slim autumnal collection, The Cathedral of Mist, comes out in the spring. In the last few years, Tin House has run two of the stories, including the title piece, and Subtropics another. This work of melancholy beauty is my second book with Cambridge-based curator of Euro-obscurities Wakefield Press, after Jean Ferry’s The Conductor and Other Tales.

And finally, next fall should see my next Jean-Philippe Toussaint translation, the final novel in his “Marie tetralogy,” Nue, from Dalkey Archive.

Are there any translation projects you can recommend to us?

To be honest, the past year’s staggering workload has left me little time for pleasure reading, something I hope to rectify with the holidays. I salute not only the many young small presses doing amazing work in translation, but the new openness of literary magazines, upstart and established, to work in translation, though I do wish that rights legwork didn’t always fall on the translator. I know litmags are sorely understaffed, but in our IP-centric world, rights are an issue of increasing importance, and a better understanding of them would help just about anyone in publishing.

I was recently at the American Literary Translators Association’s annual conference, and at the book fair there, I picked up the massive tome Glass! Love!! Perpetual Motion!!! from The University of Chicago Press, an anthology that unites several translators’ work on the eccentric and visionary Paul Scheerbart.